The Second Commandment - Page 2

MutantXavier · August 5th, 2012, 01:48:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oddball

statues could be considered tokens of worship if we openly express praise and prioritize the acquisitions of such 'idols' above the wants and needs of our loved ones and sometimes even ourselves....

Good point! Good thing all the $ i used to buy my collections are xtra money! After everything else, after bills, savings, food and shelter. Also helping out relatives.

Cheers to you!!!

PaulFromToronto · August 5th, 2012, 01:55:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MutantXavier

Good point! Good thing all the $ i used to buy my collections are xtra money! After everything else, after bills, savings, food and shelter. Also helping out relatives.

Cheers to you!!!

Good for you, Xavier!

I have a friend, like many of us do, who runs a comic shop. He allows his customers to run tabs when they can not afford their purchases. I think it is insane to borrow so you can read a comic book. Many people seem to do that. I have the impression that here on SM most of the members are fairly responsible people with professional jobs and good incomes. It is a very expensive hobby, after all. One could only fake being financially capable in this arena for so long. The level of writing in most members posts is also higher than what I experience on average elsewhere. If there wasn't a certain degree of intelligence present out here I would never take part in a Pandora's Box like this one in the first place.

golfguy · August 5th, 2012, 03:21:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulFromToronto

A winged angel will do a lot for me.

For the record, I do have faith and I do believe in a creator. I just also believe that He is not properly interpreted through any of the existing organized religions. Man wrote the books, not God. We screw up everything.

How do you justify your God allowing children to be born into the third world conditions and never having opportunities like you or I. I mean opportunities to be taught about your one true God. Opportunities to not have to learn to steal or beg to survive? Opportunities to live a healthy lifestyle and learn a skill? Please don't respond with some utter nonsense about everyone being given their own test in the eyes of God; but I would like to know your opinion of these attrocities. How you can rationalize them using religion. I have asked this question previously but no one has attempted to answer it.

?

interesting to some degree. so you obviously don't understand the importance of the holy spirit or it's role in our relationship with God. if you did, then you would understand how their is a correct interpretation. I also won't even really touch the whole "we screw everything up" comment followed by you thinking that your ways are better then God's way.

why is their evil in the world? how does it exist? well that actually is pretty easy to answer... we live in a fallen sinful world. God didn't want that for us, however, we chose to sin. God gave us free will and when Adam and Eve chose poorly the fall of mankind happened.

God doesn't force anyone to do evil, that is their choice and their free will. Scripture is quite clear that everyone has the opportunity to learn about the lord and salvation in their lifetime. Mission trips, spreading the good news, is something that we as Christians can do and are suppose to do. There are people who are born poor and people who are born rich as far as material wealth is concerned. some who are poor become rich and some who are rich become poor. people who were born in better situations then myself and some worse. what you do and how you live your life is important. how we treat our fellow man is important as well. perhaps instead of trying to create some debate on a collectible statue forum, some time at a local food shelter or soup kitchen volunteering may do some good. donating some money to charitable causes goes a long way in helping as well, either with time and/or money.
btw there are quite a few books on the questions you are asking. find a book by lee stroebel. he has several that will help answer your questions. as a matter of fact I would be willing to have one sent to you if you would like even.

Citizen Alpha · August 5th, 2012, 03:31:35 PM

It's a circular arguement. If you believe the Bible, then you believe that these imperfect men were guided by an infallible source (God). It has been theorized that the suffering in this world serves two purposes. The first is to lead those who have not been saved to salvation. The second is to strengthen believers' faith so that they may walk more closely with God. C.S. Lewis (well known author and Christian scholar) called it the "problem of pain" and decribed it as atheism's most potent weapon against the Christian faith. I could go on and quote verse after verse which address this or you could pick up a study Bible to help navigate yourself through the topic. But either way, you either believe it or you don't...especially since passages could either be intentionally/unintentionally misinterpreted or simply discounted as hog-wash (if you are of that mind set). So around and around we go.

The simple truth is there is usually a right and a wrong answer, but some are simply too difficult, if not impossible, to conclusively prove/disprove. Sometimes you don't find out for sure until it's too late to do anything about it. So really, in the end it's simply a matter of faith.

I'm not saying the Bible is right or wrong. I went through all the questions internally/externally. I've been reading religious text and theories for almost 30 years now and discuss these topics with various religious leaders as often as possible. I came to the conclusion that organized religion just isn't for me and that I am more apt to put my faith in humanity than any omnipotent guy/gal in the sky. But the one thing that I learned in all these years of asking questions is that religion means a lot to a lot of good people who would never harm another human being based on race or sexual orientation. There is a lot of help/love/food/compassion distributed around the globe by men an woman of faith. Can organized religion have a dark side as well? History and recent events provide a resounding answer of yes, but I think the good far outweighs the bad in my lifetime. And that is why I, as an athiest, support Christianity as a whole. I'm for ANYTHING that at least strives to make someone a better man or woman.

Sorry for the rant (again). This will be my last post on the subject :-)

northpole2 · August 5th, 2012, 03:35:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulFromToronto

You can try.

I am sorry if you can not see the inherent relevance of knowing that someone who chimed in, via me without a log-in, has an opinion based from a scientific perspective as opposed to someone who has been selling velvet Jesus tapestries at a flea market.

I'm sorry that you do not see the irony, you via NO credentials, creating an appeal to authority based on your GF's credentials.

In other words, I found it childish to say you wanted age based intellectual conversation when it was your GF's intellect being used, not yours, as a buffer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citizen Alpha

It's a circular argument.
The simple truth is there is usually a right and a wrong answer, but some are simply too difficult, if not impossible, to conclusively prove/disprove. Sometimes you don't find out for sure until it's too late to do anything about it. So really, in the end it's simply a matter of faith.

+1

MutantXavier · August 5th, 2012, 03:37:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulFromToronto

A winged angel will do a lot for me.

For the record, I do have faith and I do believe in a creator. I just also believe that He is not properly interpreted through any of the existing organized religions. Man wrote the books, not God. We screw up everything.

How do you justify your God allowing children to be born into the third world conditions and never having opportunities like you or I. I mean opportunities to be taught about your one true God. Opportunities to not have to learn to steal or beg to survive? Opportunities to live a healthy lifestyle and learn a skill? Please don't respond with some utter nonsense about everyone being given their own test in the eyes of God; but I would like to know your opinion of these attrocities. How you can rationalize them using religion. I have asked this question previously but no one has attempted to answer it.

?

Its really a good question and tough to answer.
If i remember others had posted they dont believe in God and everything in this earth was proven by science. I think maybe scientists can answer that question of yours. Why there are people that are less fortunate and some were born with riches and gold?

Edit: man wrote the books! Yup but they were the Apostles. Just like your name example: APOSTLE PAUL.
The Apostles were not all in equal, fyi, there were a fisherman, a lawyer etc. despite of all theyre differences. Rich or poor. They were chosen. They were called. While they wrote the bible they were guided. So no mistakes will happen.

PaulFromToronto · August 5th, 2012, 03:37:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northpole2

I'm sorry that you do not see the irony, you via NO credentials, creating an appeal to authority based on your GF's credentials.

In other words, I found it childish to say you wanted age based intellectual conversation when it was your GF's intellect being used, not yours, as a buffer.

I have a post in the getting to know you section which tells who I am. I saw no reason to go over that again. My gf does not. Almost everyone has a valid opinion and, in my opinion, it is very relevant what a person's background is with respect to their perspectives. Duh!

PaulFromToronto · August 5th, 2012, 03:40:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulFromToronto

I have a post in the getting to know you section which tells who I am. I saw no reason to go over that again. My gf does not. Almost everyone has a valid opinion and, in my opinion, it is very relevant what a person's background is with respect to their perspectives. Duh!

Furthermore, it was not an appeal to authority of any kind. Authority and I have never got along very well. I follow my own path. I am sorry if you felt threatened or diminished by anything or anyone's background. It was never my intention.

PaulFromToronto · August 5th, 2012, 03:49:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MutantXavier

Its really a good question and tough to answer.
If i remember others had posted they dont believe in God and everything in this earth was proven by science. I think maybe scientists can answer that question of yours. Why there are people that are less fortunate and some were born with riches and gold?

Edit: man wrote the books! Yup but they were the Apostles. Just like your name example: APOSTLE PAUL.
The Apostles were not all in equal, fyi, there were a fisherman, a lawyer etc. despite of all theyre differences. Rich or poor. They were chosen. They were called. While they wrote the bible they were guided. So no mistakes will happen.

It is tough to answer. I wish we could. Believe me, I would love nothing more than to KNOW without a shred of doubt that we will all be rewarded for our good deeds and forgiven for our digressions at the end of the day. I always attempt to rationalize everything as best as I can. For example, after I took some psychology when i was younger, I quickly developed and maintain the opinion that no one is truly guilty of anything. If you care to look hard enough you will always be able to understand the motives of all actions. Then, in turn, I refuse to believe that anyone is naturally born inherently evil with a desire to be disliked or hated. Everything is a result of something. No one is truly to blame for their ill actions at the end. So how can a God hold us responsible? I fear for us when it appears that men hold more sympathy and forgiveness than some people's God.

I still believe there is something.