When Brubaker & Epting close out on Cap in a few months, that may be the end for me after 30+ years. I HATE what Marvel is doing! I cannot believe that I don't have an Incredible Hulk to read every month anymore! Jason Aaron destroyed Bruce Banner & The Hulk for me. I don't even recognize my two favorite characters.
I went through a gap where I didn't read comics after I had collected for a very long time. I tried picking back up on Marvel a few years ago, and unless you can lay down some major loot, it's almost impossible to keep up. I gave up on their new stuff a long time ago. The only thing I read from them is the newer Winter Soldier series.
I think comics, as we've known them, are in fact about done. Which is ironic, considering the popularity of the characters these days. But the model has been utterly killed by the big two companies, plus Image. Gloss and hype have completely replaced storylines and history.
I think the characters will remain, much in the same way we still see re-vamps of Sherlock Holmes, Odysseus, and Conan. But the books themselves will soon move to digital, and the back-issue market will collapse, and comics will more or less be a relic.
Honestly, if Marvel or DC would forget their superstar model of business, and go back to simple newsprint, monthly issues for each character or team (with the occasional crossover, maybe in the summer specials?), they'd reduce costs and invite collectors back into the hobby. At this point, the industry is running on fumes. When a stalwart collector like me can't find a way to get back into my favorite books after a few years being away? That's a sign that the train has truly left the tracks far back in the distance. That's not even taking into account that the hobby is attracting very few kids anymore.
On the bright side, the prices for books (and maybe original art) should go back to more reasonable levels, for those that still care.
I think judging just from one pic or some covers is a bit harsh. Try the books before you knock 'em. Yoyu won't have the same creative teams on the same comic forever.
I think judging just from one pic or some covers is a bit harsh. Try the books before you knock 'em. Yoyu won't have the same creative teams on the same comic forever.
I'm not sure who you're responding to, but for me, I'm not judging on one pic or some covers. I think there's actually some great writing happening today, but there's no consistency, no real way to collect anything other than short runs. The fact that I can't buy one central Avengers book is pretty sad, especially considering I have a full run of that title from #1. I'd love to continue that collection, but I can't. There was an explosion of Avengers books five years ago, and it's never subsided--sort of the same reason I quit buying x-books years ago. It was impossible to follow unless you made it your life's work.
In short, its not the books that are bad, but the way they're produced and marketed. If the industry would go back to newsprint, with core monthlies and (rare) specials...stop all the ridiculous extra series that completely alienate the casual reader...make the age-appropriateness of each book very clear, and aim more towards the kids they were originally aimed for? I think comics would start to thrive again.
As it stands, these are books written primarily for adult fans who have a long history in the hobby, and a lot of time to spend on keeping track of everything. That population won't last, and the younger generation won't step in.
I'm not sure who you're responding to, but for me, I'm not judging on one pic or some covers. I think there's actually some great writing happening today, but there's no consistency, no real way to collect anything other than short runs. The fact that I can't buy one central Avengers book is pretty sad, especially considering I have a full run of that title from #1. I'd love to continue that collection, but I can't. There was an explosion of Avengers books five years ago, and it's never subsided--sort of the same reason I quit buying x-books years ago. It was impossible to follow unless you made it your life's work.
In short, its not the books that are bad, but the way they're produced and marketed. If the industry would go back to newsprint, with core monthlies and (rare) specials...stop all the ridiculous extra series that completely alienate the casual reader...make the age-appropriateness of each book very clear, and aim more towards the kids they were originally aimed for? I think comics would start to thrive again.
As it stands, these are books written primarily for adult fans who have a long history in the hobby, and a lot of time to spend on keeping track of everything. That population won't last, and the younger generation won't step in.
I'm just responding in general, mostly when every started hating as soon as one preview image was shown y'know, not looking at what's rolling out, some of the stuff is looking great. I hear ya on being able to collect one long title and or the hardcore collectors.
Don't get me wrong, I've collected comics my whole life, I think t's just about modifying your collecting habits. Of the Marvel Now stuff, I'm not collecting at least 4 new titles I didn't collect before cos I either love the characters, love the creative teams or love the premise of the series.
Also, when I get together with my friends at the comic shop every Saturday, they're all very excited and are loving the books coming out now from Marvel so somewhere they're doing something right.
Basically I'm just saying it can't be all bad
Oh and also, there are some great kickstarter comics that need backing that are catering for all ages, as well as indy stuff. Have a gander and support the ones that interest you. Especially if anyone is jaded by the big 2 (I know DC has let me down WAY MORE than Marvel has sadly), so all the money I would spend on DC, I use on trying new books. Just an idea
I'm not sure who you're responding to, but for me, I'm not judging on one pic or some covers. I think there's actually some great writing happening today, but there's no consistency, no real way to collect anything other than short runs. The fact that I can't buy one central Avengers book is pretty sad, especially considering I have a full run of that title from #1. I'd love to continue that collection, but I can't. There was an explosion of Avengers books five years ago, and it's never subsided--sort of the same reason I quit buying x-books years ago. It was impossible to follow unless you made it your life's work.
In short, its not the books that are bad, but the way they're produced and marketed. If the industry would go back to newsprint, with core monthlies and (rare) specials...stop all the ridiculous extra series that completely alienate the casual reader...make the age-appropriateness of each book very clear, and aim more towards the kids they were originally aimed for? I think comics would start to thrive again.
As it stands, these are books written primarily for adult fans who have a long history in the hobby, and a lot of time to spend on keeping track of everything. That population won't last, and the younger generation won't step in.
I have to agree with a lot of what you said, Teague. I have actually been reading Will Eisner's books on Sequential Art recently. His comic and graphic novel work was great, and his Sequential Art textbooks are really good, but he comes across pretty clearly in his disdain for superhero comics too. He constantly talks about elevating comics, so graphic novels can share bookshelves with great works of literature. Eisner pioneered comics, as well as graphic novels. He says things that suggest that superhero comics are very simple and immature though. Maybe you could argue that Silver Age comics WERE simple that way. Most of the writers now don't just write comics. They have written novels, or scripts for movies or television. And the artists consider themselves more "serious" too. The stories have to be more adult, more complex, with huge crossovers and plots that involve Marvel's entire line, or DC's entire line. You could say that the simplicity is gone. Things have become overcomplicated. Moving away from newsprint to better quality paper and production is also part of it. There is a desire to elevate comics, and there is an equal desire to make money too, which explains the multiple variant covers and crap, intended to get suckers to buy more. I think the effort to elevate comics succeeded to a degree, but ultimately it has failed in other ways. In trying to make comics more mature, and themselves as writers and artists look more sophisticated, they have lost the kids. Kids can't afford them anyway. That's another thing. I used to be able to buy everything by Marvel and DC as a kid. It would cost a kid $400.00 per month to buy everything now. I would be very happy to go back to comics on newsprint, and the same kind of stories and art that we got in the 60s and 70s. And let the people who want to do elevated artsy comics do their own graphic novels. But I don't think we are going to go back. I think both Marvel and DC keep trying to figure out how to get kids back, and get new readers. But they want to do it without lowering prices, and without going back to the kind of stories and art that kids love (and adults like me). So they make changes, modernizing characters, doing reboots, leaving history behind in many cases, thinking young people will then find it easier to jump in. In the process, they crap all over the history and continuity that the older fans have always known and loved. It is just a complicated mess, and I don't think they get it. I have also heard the arguments before for giving it a chance. It will really depend on how radical the changes are. After decades of familiarity with the characters, if they aren't the same anymore, and I no longer recognize or identify with them, then I don't care how good the stories or art might be - I no longer know them. They aren't the same characters that I grew up with. That is what is at the heart of it. Anyway, we will see what happens. I don't think they will get the results they want though, and bring in kids and a new group of collectors. For that they have to address the issue of price, even if they don't consider anything else I have said, and they aren't going to do that.
Al, why not give the indestructible hulk a chance when it comes out? Waid is doing great things with Daredevil, I bet his hulk is going to be good. I can't wait to read it.
I think comics are alive and well. As well as that medium can be. Digital comics are becoming more popular and well change is good whether most of like or not.
I think changes bring in more people over the long haul.
Being less and less tolerant of change is a sign of getting older. That's not an insult is just what it is.
Me, I welcome the change and I'll embrace technology. New teams and new designs its just too early for me to judge.
I have a 15 year old son and let me tell you that his friends do not mind a change in history of the character. In fact, they kind of like changes. Keeps it fresh. Different times for a different generation.
well the record doesn't show that for Joe Q. In fact, since Joe Q has taken over, Marvel hasn't never had this much popularity
A double negative Coug! I expected more from you!
I think you mean to say that Marvel's never been as popular as it is now - but who knows - that double negative = a positive and then the flux capacitor is on the fritz...
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