I'm not just talking comics. I know alot of people think comics are own the downward trend but sales are up and DC seems to be alienating some writers and artists over the new 52 (just like Marvel can do when new projects exist).
But, this goes beyond comics. This is about the brand.
Let's face it. DC isn't even a close to Marvel with a successful brand.
Let's start with the movies. Marvel owns this media over DC. DC could only make Batman which was good and then Marvel took Avengers and blew Batman away. Marvel was very forward thinking with movies about getting their characters and teams on film (even if the film wasn't good -it got the character(s) known). DC has fallen way behind on this and can't seem to get their act together.
Merchandising. Marvel owns this as well. Because their movies do so well and more of their characters are known well, they own the action figure and other merchandising sales. It's not even close.
Finally, comics. I think DC and Marvel are pretty neck and neck lately. But, overall this goes to Marvel as well if you look at the years. They just have more popular characters and teams.
So, I ask you. Can DC ever be as big as Marvel? Or is it too late for them? If not, what can they do to catch up?
Last edited by CougarTrace; August 26th, 2012 at 01:03:34 PM..
I don't think they can ever catch up. During my years growing up/reading comics, DC was all over the place with their numerous worlds and disjointed continuity. They never seemed to have much by way of direction. Marvel's bread and butter was getting the reader invested in the characters over time and keeping the continuity intact.
I know this has changed a lot over the years, but it's hard to ignore Marvel's decades long invasion into the American psyche.
The only hope I see for DC are their cartoons and animated DVDs where they seem to have a substantial edge on Marvel. These mediums are more attractive to younger audiances so who knows...maybe between that and their hard reboot (assuming it sticks) will be enough to propel them into the overall lead in 20 years or so. Only time will tell .
great point on the animation. However, to me DC really only excels at this with Batman.
For my money, the 90s X-MEN animation is the best that's ever been done, but I will say DC owns the animation part of this because it seems whomever owns the animation rights for Marvel can never let a series go past a couple of seasons lately
We'll have to see what they do. I think it is cyclical. Everyone forgets, minus the Hulk TV Show, live actions was TERRIBLE for marvel until Blade. If they do things right I think DC can catch up.
I remember DC being Iconic and where Marvel is right now into the eighties when they equaled out. DC was running the movies up until Blade. It was the 90s, IMO, when the continuity finally screwed up DC and people realized they could jump right into Marvel stories.
Then again, Superman Returns and GL makes me question my own words.
Last edited by northpole2; August 26th, 2012 at 01:57:38 PM..
Then again, Superman Returns and GL makes me question my own words.
Ha ha. No doubt Marvel made some great movies, but they also made Punisher, Elektra, Punisher, Daredevil, Punisher and a couple so bad I'm not even gonna mention them.
DC seems to have gained readers with the New 52 or whatever it's called.
And, as someone says, the animated cartoons, DC have kicked ass forever. Some of you like the 90' X-Men, but it didn't fare too well in the rest of the world, while Batman and Teen Titans ROCKED (and both were very good). Marvels animated style stinks to high heaven.
But Marvel is still the leader, with DC catching up. 10 years from now... who knows?
Ha ha. No doubt Marvel made some great movies, but they also made Punisher, Elektra, Punisher, Daredevil, Punisher and a couple so bad I'm not even gonna mention them.
DC seems to have gained readers with the New 52 or whatever it's called.
And, as someone says, the animated cartoons, DC have kicked ass forever. Some of you like the 90' X-Men, but it didn't fare too well in the rest of the world, while Batman and Teen Titans ROCKED (and both were very good). Marvels animated style stinks to high heaven.
But Marvel is still the leader, with DC catching up. 10 years from now... who knows?
You don't get the point though. So what if some of the Marvel movies were bad (and some of them like Daredevil and Punisher weren't bad) they got the characters out there to more fans.
great point on the animation. However, to me DC really only excels at this with Batman.
For my money, the 90s X-MEN animation is the best that's ever been done, but I will say DC owns the animation part of this because it seems whomever owns the animation rights for Marvel can never let a series go past a couple of seasons lately
I can't agree with this. Justice League and Justice League Unlimited were better by miles than any Marvel cartoon. And Young Justice is just as good.
That's putting aside Batman: TAS... just a classic show.
I think they found that written in the Dead Sea Scrolls and scrawled in berry juice in ancient French caves.
I believe God also ordained it to be so when he created the world.
No other outcome is possible.
Ha ha. No doubt Marvel made some great movies, but they also made Punisher, Elektra, Punisher, Daredevil, Punisher and a couple so bad I'm not even gonna mention them?
I'm not going to discuss bad or good in this manner because it is really about revenue. I agree minus the first Punisher, because they took a break after that movie.
I'll clarify, to catch up they need to put out quality and some quantity. I'm basically saying, with their stable of characters, we keep getting mediocre to terrible DC movies those two didn't help my confidence. All this, while Marvel stays at the front of people's minds good or bad.
DC has a great trilogy and Watchmen versus Catwoman, Superman Returns, Jonah Hex and GL. That's 50/50 in my book.
For example I mentioned Blade because, IMO, it showed Marvel these movies could make money. Minus a bootlegged unreleased FF movie, Marvel took an 8 year break from comic book movies.
Marvel:
Blade (1998)
X-Men
Blade II
Spider-Man
Daredevil
X2: X-Men United
Hulk
The Punisher (2004)
Spider-Man 2
Blade Trinity
Elektra
Fantastic Four
X-Men: The Last Stand
Ghost Rider
Spider-Man 3
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer
Iron Man
The Incredible Hulk
Punisher: War Zone
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
Iron Man 2
Thor
X-Men: First Class
Captain America: The First Avenger
Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance
The Amazing Spider-Man
DC:
Steel (1997)
Catwoman(2004)
Batman Begins
Superman Returns
The Dark Knight
Watchmen
Jonah Hex
Green Lantern
The Dark Knight Rises
If we count Catwoman, DC has made 8 movies since 2004. Marvel has made 19 , 20 if you count the international Man-Thing release, in the same time frame. Since 1997 they have made 26(27). Of course some were crap, but their track record is well above 50% IMO. DC, for me, has been hit or miss. To be fair, DC/Warner Bros use one studio and Marvel doesn't own all of the movie rights to their characters. Still this goes to perception. Even if they don't own the movie rights, the average public non-nerd thinks it is all Marvel.
On the other hand, DC's tv/dvd animation department has been great and almost the exact opposite of Marvel. I have enjoyed almost every single DVD movie release for DC and Marvel is very hit or miss.
With Warner Bros. Entertainment backing DC now, I think it will take a bit, but it's full steam ahead for the World's Greatest Super-Heroes.
If you break down the DC Comics properties: Comics, Movies, Licenses that can be handed out to different vendor that make anything from toothbrushes to bed room sets to bicycles - I think they'll get the license spread out and maximize DC character exposure.
Brands like Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are still some of the MOST RECOGNIZED brands around the world. And with efforts to flesh out even more characters and drive further reach - slowly but surely DC will gain some ground.
It'll take time, but time is what they have right now...it's not a race, per se, it's a strategy to succeed...
Marvel:
Blade (1998)
X-Men
Blade II
Spider-Man
Daredevil
X2: X-Men United
Hulk
The Punisher (2004)
Spider-Man 2
Blade Trinity
Elektra
Fantastic Four
X-Men: The Last Stand
Ghost Rider
Spider-Man 3
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer
Iron Man
The Incredible Hulk
Punisher: War Zone
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
Iron Man 2
Thor
X-Men: First Class
Captain America: The First Avenger
Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance
The Amazing Spider-Man
DC:
Steel (1997)
Catwoman(2004)
Batman Begins
Superman Returns
The Dark Knight
Watchmen
Jonah Hex
Green Lantern
The Dark Knight Rises
Since you started at 1997 (not really fair IMO for the whole scheme of things) I can understand forgetting to add Batman & Robin to the list, but how did you skip over the Avengers?
Except for a hand full of characters, most of DC are 3rd, 4th string players and feel like poor knock-offs of Marvel. I am surprised that DC is still surviving. I expect Marvel to buy some of the more successful DC characters in the future.
Recently watched Green Lantern and Ghost Rider. GR was not epic, at least it was watchable. GL, freakin' agony to watch.
As far as DC leading in the 80s...not so sure about that. I'm pretty sure that Marvel has been putting a beating on them since they introduced their original line up of heroes (FF, Avengers, Thor, Spider-Man etc).
It's hard to argue with the iconic status of their big three, but DC has been so tied up in their big three for so long. Marvel spread the love around and made starts out of so many characters - heroes and villains.
DC just always seemed to lack the "cool factor" (outside of Batman once he went all dark and gritty). The Avengers always had way more team/personal dynamics then their DC counterpart and DC never came up for an answer for the X-Men, Spidey etc.
Can't speak on what's been going on the past couple of decades, but it seems like DC has some real traction with the reboot and their animated DVDs are pretty darn good. The down side for Marvel is that if they try to replicate what DC is doing they go against what has made them so successful for so long - continuity. Yeah - I know they've mucked around with it in the late 90s and 2000s, but they always went back to their bread and butter in short order and they kept their lasting reboots in a single alternate universe.
I hope they both do well, but...I agree with Truefaith so skip all that long winded business above. Oops...too late :-P
I firmly believe that DC is equal to Marvel in terms of comics & characters, but will never be Marvel's equal because its not a fan friendly company that has an AWFUL business model with regards to expanding beyond the comics. Here's what I'm talking about:
1. Trade Paperbacks: Marvel releases their softcovers approximately 6 months (not so bad) after the story ends. DC doesn't release these books until FOURTEEN months after the story ends to make sure they soak you with the Hardcover sales, and by then, who cares?? There are a lot of people like me (and growing) who only read the TPB's.
2. Movies: Marvel Studios' ascension has only just begun, while DC completely blew a layup with the Green Lantern, and is in the process of blowing a potential Justice League franchise by rushing it out to theaters & offering the helm to awful Hollywood hacks like Ben Affleck.
3. Statues: DC Direct produces absolute crap. Marvel has done a great job licesning to Bowen, Sideshow, etc. DC has done a horrible job of capturing this market.
4. Secondary Characters: DC shoves Batman down your throat until you vomit, they can't get a voice for Superman, they overrate Wonder Woman (who nobody EVER cared about), and why have Hal Jordan and Barry Allen been non-factors for the better part of 20 years?? Where are Aquaman, Hawkman, Green Arrow, etc. All of whom are household names who they NEVER do anything with!! Compare that to Marvel's secondary characters (like Ant-Man) who get a movie with buzz.
As far as trades go - you are VERY off on Marvel being fan friendly. At least as price is concerned.
At this point - Marvel releases 4-5 issues a trade - and charges anywhere between $25 - $30 for them. Issues that would have cost you #16-$20 had you bought the over-priced single issues. No matter how over priced the single issues are - it's nothing compared to how bad the trades are priced.
A couple of Hulk trades were just released - $40 retail each - collecting issues that you can regularly find in $1 bins. Marvel knows that certain collectors are just buying trades - so they just hike up the prices of trades and screw you over that way.
One of the worst price hikes I saw Marvel do was the Peter David Visionaries. Volume 2 or 3 was $20 - and the very next volume - same amount of issues collected - all of a sudden was now $30.
So, they can be described as a lot of things - but fan friendly is not one of them!
As far as trades go - you are VERY off on Marvel being fan friendly. At least as price is concerned.
At this point - Marvel releases 4-5 issues a trade - and charges anywhere between $25 - $30 for them. Issues that would have cost you #16-$20 had you bought the over-priced single issues. No matter how over priced the single issues are - it's nothing compared to how bad the trades are priced.
A couple of Hulk trades were just released - $40 retail each - collecting issues that you can regularly find in $1 bins. Marvel knows that certain collectors are just buying trades - so they just hike up the prices of trades and screw you over that way.
One of the worst price hikes I saw Marvel do was the Peter David Visionaries. Volume 2 or 3 was $20 - and the very next volume - same amount of issues collected - all of a sudden was now $30.
So, they can be described as a lot of things - but fan friendly is not one of them!
Fan Friendly to me. I love the trades. It's the only way I read now. And I don't pay that much. The most I pay is around 20 to 25
Can DC ever be as successful as Marvel?
Linear Mode
